Do you believe stoplights are dangerous? If no stop and go lights, we would hurt each other... That's why a loving God has given us standards to keep us safe and keep us civil, ie not acting like animals... Thou shalt not kill--that's a good one, right? Thou shalt not steal--again, a good one, right? These and the rest are all basic to guiding and giving people guidelines to be able to live peacefully with each other. If we just ignore these, and decide we will live in anarchy and disrespect (slander, etc.) chaos ensues and God wanted to prevent that from happening... The longer people ignore God's loving plan for us, the longer people will suffer in our own insistence of destroying everything. Sad but true... With love, cousin Barb
Thou shalt not kill? Yeah, that IS a good one. Absolutely. No exceptions. Oh wait, there was all that killing in God's name. Oops.
If a person broke into your home in the night and threatened your family, in self defense it is okay to defend yourself and your family... That just makes sense for survival...
Also, you should know that there are lots of people that are doing things in Christ's name all through history that are not true Christians... So please don't believe everything you read or hear... Besides that, just because a person considers himself to be a follower of Christ, he is still a "sinner" (Latin--sine;without) A man who walks without God is vulnerable to act as a crude human and not with the power of God's divine Spirit. This is where we get into trouble, because man by himself thinks he is God and that is the ultimate "pride" statement... And pride kills.
So may I take the opportunity to give you a blessing--as God has told us to do to all Jews... God bless you and your family and give you wisdom as you grapple with life's tough questions... Shalom... Barb--Devin's cousin-in-law
So may I take the opportunity to give you a blessing--as God has told us to do to all Jews... God bless you and your family and give you wisdom as you grapple with life's tough questions... Shalom... Barb--Devin's cousin-in-law
Wait, so are you saying there are not absolutes?
The quote Devin posted talked about the dangers of absolutes. You quoted an absolute - Thou shalt not kill. You then later acknowledged an exception - defending yourself and your family. I was simply commenting that you seemed to agree that there is not an "absolute" even for not killing.
The commandment "Thou shalt not kill" is meant to give people a civilized standard to live by-- God's loving boundaries to help us know what is not acceptable for our self-preservation...
You know there is a difference between defending ones self and not having respect for life, in general... If an innocent person is attacked, wouldn't you rather see the innocent person survive if it came down to it?
I think what we are talking about here is legalism (like the Pharisees believed in) and God's love, which Jesus came to teach us... It's like the difference between the head and the heart... Even though Christians live by the Law, we are also allowed to make very careful exceptions if guided by the Holy Spirit's love or self-preservation. Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath, for example. The Law was first given to give us standards and practical guidelines, but also to show that as "sinners" (human beings WITHOUT God's guidance) it is impossible to live perfectly in a "fallen world" by the Law--to keep every one of them by the letter. That's why God sent us a Savior to die for our sins "once and for ALL" the scripture says. By doing that He bridges he gap between us "unholy" ordinary humans and the Holy God Almighty... Christians are still sinners, but grow in their faith as they learn to trust God and practice what we've learned in everyday situations. The sign of a Christian is a humble, repentant heart.
There is so much to learn and understand that I can't go into here right now, but as for your concern about absolutes--I myself am acutely aware that we live in a "fallen world" and that things go on that I don't think is right, but they still happen because of the fallen world we live in... All that I am in control of is my life, my behavior and my relationship with God. Everyone is accountable for their own lives and how they interpret right and wrong... I cannot judge or control another person's behavior, but I would speak up against injustice and oppression as that is also a form of abuse of innocent people.
Well, gotta go for now. So nice to exchange ideas with intelligent people on FB; thank you for engaging me. I'd much rather do this than talk about the weather or collect farm animals... Shalom, "cousin" Barb
You know there is a difference between defending ones self and not having respect for life, in general... If an innocent person is attacked, wouldn't you rather see the innocent person survive if it came down to it?
I think what we are talking about here is legalism (like the Pharisees believed in) and God's love, which Jesus came to teach us... It's like the difference between the head and the heart... Even though Christians live by the Law, we are also allowed to make very careful exceptions if guided by the Holy Spirit's love or self-preservation. Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath, for example. The Law was first given to give us standards and practical guidelines, but also to show that as "sinners" (human beings WITHOUT God's guidance) it is impossible to live perfectly in a "fallen world" by the Law--to keep every one of them by the letter. That's why God sent us a Savior to die for our sins "once and for ALL" the scripture says. By doing that He bridges he gap between us "unholy" ordinary humans and the Holy God Almighty... Christians are still sinners, but grow in their faith as they learn to trust God and practice what we've learned in everyday situations. The sign of a Christian is a humble, repentant heart.
There is so much to learn and understand that I can't go into here right now, but as for your concern about absolutes--I myself am acutely aware that we live in a "fallen world" and that things go on that I don't think is right, but they still happen because of the fallen world we live in... All that I am in control of is my life, my behavior and my relationship with God. Everyone is accountable for their own lives and how they interpret right and wrong... I cannot judge or control another person's behavior, but I would speak up against injustice and oppression as that is also a form of abuse of innocent people.
Well, gotta go for now. So nice to exchange ideas with intelligent people on FB; thank you for engaging me. I'd much rather do this than talk about the weather or collect farm animals... Shalom, "cousin" Barb
Interesting. So, do you think that without the word of God, people would not have figured out that we should not kill, steal, etc.? In fact, one could argue (and many have) that the things you have stated are actually written by man, designed to compel/scare people into behaving via the threat of what will happen to them after they die.
To me, one of the greatest sins is the variety of things that have been done to hurt people, all in the name of god. The Spanish Inquisition, the killing of native americans/manifest destiny/white man's burden, the persecution of gay people. The list goes on.
Also, didn't John Smith claim that God told him to take many women as his wives and that blood vengeance was acceptable and part of God's wish? Again, my point being that there are many claims of what God said and many of the world's bloodiest conflicts have been over whose God is the right God. I agree that everyone struggles to live life according to reasonable standards. I just think that when you throw God into the mix, it doesn't always necessarily help....
That said, I totally agree that this is a more interesting conversation than talking about how many farm animals one has collected!
To me, one of the greatest sins is the variety of things that have been done to hurt people, all in the name of god. The Spanish Inquisition, the killing of native americans/manifest destiny/white man's burden, the persecution of gay people. The list goes on.
Also, didn't John Smith claim that God told him to take many women as his wives and that blood vengeance was acceptable and part of God's wish? Again, my point being that there are many claims of what God said and many of the world's bloodiest conflicts have been over whose God is the right God. I agree that everyone struggles to live life according to reasonable standards. I just think that when you throw God into the mix, it doesn't always necessarily help....
That said, I totally agree that this is a more interesting conversation than talking about how many farm animals one has collected!
I have to agree—these are overwhelming situations that I have to admit that I don’t understand either. There is something that I do understand and that is that my trying to comprehend the complexities of the universe is like an ant understanding how to build a spaceship. Our brains just don’t have the capacity, but God does—He created the universe… And to think that we can figure it all out is pretty silly, if you really think about it…
God asks us to trust him, to have faith that He has our good in mind. This is what the concept of faith is about, and He is the only One that is worthy of our trust. He is the only One that can set the absolute truths because He IS the Truth. There is only One God and He is absolutely Holy, Pure, Perfect, Infinite, Complete, Whole; there aren’t enough words to describe His greatness. We are not any of the above; this is why it has been established—He is God, and we are not…
God has given us standards to live up to, but knowing we are not able to be perfect, etc., just asked us to have a “humble, repentant” heart… This means simply knowing and respecting what His standards are for us, and being conscious and sorry when we fall short of them for the purpose of growing and maturing in our spiritual growth.
But, in reality, our human nature is not to have humble, repentant hearts and that is why He sent Jesus. He showed us how to live an obedient, humble life. If we “believe” in Jesus, i.e. are on the same page with what He is trying to teach us, then we are constantly in the process of growing and maturing spiritually. However, it can’t be done the right way without Him—that’s why it is so important.
Please understand, too, that there have been and are still so-called types of “Christian” religions that either didn’t have access to the Bible or don’t want the people to actually read it and discourage the people from studying and understanding it. So just because a group calls themselves “Christian” doesn’t mean they are representing Christ as He intended us to…
In conclusion, I truly believe that the Bible is the only divinely-inspired handbook that helps us understand how to live here on earth, but also to prevent us from being eternally separated from God and His awesome love. I think that is the definition of hell and it would be a very sad place to be. Shalom, Cousin Barb
